#4: The Legend To The Legends. Hall of Fame Songwriter Roger Cook Part 1
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$old 4 a $ong™ isn’t just a podcast — it’s a revolution for undervalued creatives. Hosted by Terrance Sawchuk, Billboard #1 writer & multi-platinum producer, each episode helps you rewrite your story from undervalued to unstoppable.
Take the free Artist Worth Quiz, join the $old 4 a $ong Journal, and join the waitlist for the $4$ Artist Accelerator™ course all at www.sold4asong.com
Legendary songwriter Roger Cook—the only British citizen inducted into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame—joins Terrance Sawchuk to unpack six decades of craft, business, and integrity. From “Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress)” and “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing” to “Talking in Your Sleep,” Roger shares how to write songs that outlast trends, the reality of publishing splits, why masters vs. publishing changed the game, and how artists can build direct, sustainable careers with 100 true fans.
You’ll hear frank stories about George Martin, The Beatles, UK/US publishing practices, live performance royalty gaps, demo culture, co-writing integrity, and why Roger still writes two to three days a week at 85—with a Guild ukulele John Prine gifted him.
What You’ll Learn
Craft: How to write for the listener (and widen your cutability from 3 artists to 33)
Business: Why historic publishing deals siphoned value—and how to negotiate smarter today
Royalties: The uncomfortable truth about US live performance payouts vs. other countries
Strategy: Masters vs. publishing, why investors buy catalogs, and what “uncorrelated assets” mean
Career Design: Portals, community, and the “100 fans x $1,000” model
Chapter Timestamps
00:00 Spiritual payment: why one great line is its own paycheck
01:00 Terrance’s intro + mission of $old 4 a $ong
03:20 Roger at 85: perspective, gratitude, longevity
05:40 Choirboy roots → harmony, melody, first groups (The Harmonettes → The Sapphires)
08:09 The Kestrels, first co-write: “You’ve Got Your Troubles (I’ve Got Mine)”
09:35 When The Fortunes “got the song” and raced it to a hit
11:00 George Martin, “Michelle (ma belle),” and becoming artists
12:43 The publishing math: 70 years after death & the 50/50 (that wasn’t really 50/50)
14:21 US live performance royalties vs. Canada; forms no one files
16:02 Cook & Greenaway: integrity over easy credits
17:49 Modern split creep: how a writer can end up with 5%
19:17 Why investors buy catalogs: undervaluation & uncorrelated assets
21:44 Masters vs. publishing: the big shift with streaming scale
23:40 100 true fans; ASCAP averages; building direct value
25:18 Roger’s routine: still writing 2–3 days a week
27:18 First meeting in Nashville (golf, AIR Studios, Beatles orbit)
31:30 “Love Don’t Let Me Go,” Hillary Lindsey demo, Gordie Sampson
33:15 Coming to Nashville “cocky,” learning to write for the ears here
34:47 “Talking in Your Sleep” and leaving the “English bits” out
36:13 Lyrics first: mixing for words (carving 1 kHz), pop vs. country sensibilities
37:41 Computers, programming, AI voices—and protecting “soul”
39:02 The ukulele from John Prine
40:08 The Beatles’ shockwave; Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Orbison, Everlys
42:35 Work ethic vs. entitlement: Hamburg, clubs, and stagecraft
43:50 Closing: claim your worth, build your portal, own your career
About Roger Cook
Roger Cook is a member of both the American Songwriters Hall of Fame and the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame. His songs have been recorded by The Hollies, Don Williams, Crystal Gayle, George Strait, John Denver, and many more. Notable works include “Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress),” “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing,” and “Talking in Your Sleep.” He has collaborated with the greats on both sides of the Atlantic and helped shape pop, country, and rock for over five decades.
Notable Quotes
“I get paid in my soul as a writer.” — Roger Cook
“Change one word and 33 artists can cut your song.” — Roger Cook
“We need a new norm where creators keep leverage.” — Terrance Sawchuk
Take the free Artist Worth Quiz, join the $old 4 a $ong Journal, and join the waitlist for the $4$ Artist Accelerator™ course all at www.sold4asong.com
Legendary songwriter Roger Cook—the only British citizen inducted into the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame—joins Terrance Sawchuk to unpack six decades of craft, business, and integrity. From “Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress)” and “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing” to “Talking in Your Sleep,” Roger shares how to write songs that outlast trends, the reality of publishing splits, why masters vs. publishing changed the game, and how artists can build direct, sustainable careers with 100 true fans.
You’ll hear frank stories about George Martin, The Beatles, UK/US publishing practices, live performance royalty gaps, demo culture, co-writing integrity, and why Roger still writes two to three days a week at 85—with a Guild ukulele John Prine gifted him.
What You’ll Learn
Craft: How to write for the listener (and widen your cutability from 3 artists to 33)
Business: Why historic publishing deals siphoned value—and how to negotiate smarter today
Royalties: The uncomfortable truth about US live performance payouts vs. other countries
Strategy: Masters vs. publishing, why investors buy catalogs, and what “uncorrelated assets” mean
Career Design: Portals, community, and the “100 fans x $1,000” model
Chapter Timestamps
00:00 Spiritual payment: why one great line is its own paycheck
01:00 Terrance’s intro + mission of $old 4 a $ong
03:20 Roger at 85: perspective, gratitude, longevity
05:40 Choirboy roots → harmony, melody, first groups (The Harmonettes → The Sapphires)
08:09 The Kestrels, first co-write: “You’ve Got Your Troubles (I’ve Got Mine)”
09:35 When The Fortunes “got the song” and raced it to a hit
11:00 George Martin, “Michelle (ma belle),” and becoming artists
12:43 The publishing math: 70 years after death & the 50/50 (that wasn’t really 50/50)
14:21 US live performance royalties vs. Canada; forms no one files
16:02 Cook & Greenaway: integrity over easy credits
17:49 Modern split creep: how a writer can end up with 5%
19:17 Why investors buy catalogs: undervaluation & uncorrelated assets
21:44 Masters vs. publishing: the big shift with streaming scale
23:40 100 true fans; ASCAP averages; building direct value
25:18 Roger’s routine: still writing 2–3 days a week
27:18 First meeting in Nashville (golf, AIR Studios, Beatles orbit)
31:30 “Love Don’t Let Me Go,” Hillary Lindsey demo, Gordie Sampson
33:15 Coming to Nashville “cocky,” learning to write for the ears here
34:47 “Talking in Your Sleep” and leaving the “English bits” out
36:13 Lyrics first: mixing for words (carving 1 kHz), pop vs. country sensibilities
37:41 Computers, programming, AI voices—and protecting “soul”
39:02 The ukulele from John Prine
40:08 The Beatles’ shockwave; Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Orbison, Everlys
42:35 Work ethic vs. entitlement: Hamburg, clubs, and stagecraft
43:50 Closing: claim your worth, build your portal, own your career
About Roger Cook
Roger Cook is a member of both the American Songwriters Hall of Fame and the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame. His songs have been recorded by The Hollies, Don Williams, Crystal Gayle, George Strait, John Denver, and many more. Notable works include “Long Cool Woman (In a Black Dress),” “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing,” and “Talking in Your Sleep.” He has collaborated with the greats on both sides of the Atlantic and helped shape pop, country, and rock for over five decades.
Notable Quotes
“I get paid in my soul as a writer.” — Roger Cook
“Change one word and 33 artists can cut your song.” — Roger Cook
“We need a new norm where creators keep leverage.” — Terrance Sawchuk
